Legacies of Justice

[Poison Ivy]

A WALK IN THE PARK

WHO: Poison Ivy, Talia (courtesy of Meredith)
WHERE: Robinson Park
WHAT: "You save the world!" "No, YOU save it!"


Poison, of course, is all about the bed. The flowerbed, for one thing. But her company, the outward manifestation of the money-making machine of the intellectual property she holds, is cinders. It speaks for that IP that her shares are still worth the paper they're printed on, but she did lose half a building. She lost much more in employees. Talent. Skill. Experience. And then perhaps more still in public trust. Before, she'd been able to hire some of the best in the market. Now that they're dead, she'd have to settle for second best. And some of them? Strangely don't care to sign into a job that might draw more terrorist attacks. So between running her operation on a skeleton crew and a market that has downrated it for the sole reason that more unpredictable things may happen? She scrapes by. But it's not the pleasure it used to be. And that sort of thing sometimes makes strange bedfellows.

So when LexCorp called? She took the call. The name of course makes her as suspicious as the next person, but their track record has improved somewhat, at least in the areas she cares for, since the new CEO is in charge. A woman, too. Bonus. Of course having that woman investigated gave rise to some rather ... interesting rumours. Good? Bad? It's hard to tell. It might be a once in a lifetime opportunity. Or, it might be a danger to address. It is, however, part of the reason why Poison takes the call. Agrees to a meeting. Perhaps the bigger part, too. For many people, the chance of doing business with LexCorp might be enough. For even more, the dangers of turning down business with LexCorp would be. For Poison Ivy? It's at least in part getting a close look at the woman heading the multi now, from the comfort of her own home.

So a time is fixed. The place? She'd been considering the office. Business courtesy. Projecting that aura of professionalism. The thing is, the temporary premises are a little more makeshift than she would like. She is also safer in the park, but that is no object. She will be more at ease there though, there are no two ways about it. Perhaps more to the point, she has heard things about LexCorp, and the worst of them seem to suggest that inviting a gambit of the 'Who's looking after your children while you're here?' kind seems needlessly reckless. She has no idea whether the current CEO subscribes to those practices, but after cutting so many compromises around the children, she's not going to endanger them for no good reason.

The park will do.

And the autumn leaves are so very, very pretty.


The new CEO of LexCorp does subscribe to some interesting business practices. Of course, on the surface she's pretty much all squeaky clean. The ones that know about Talia Head's 'questionable' actions before being handed the reins to one of the largest corporations in the world aren't talking. They either have their own reasons for keeping it quiet, or are dead. A larger number than usual are in Gotham City, of course. They have their own secrets to protect though, making for a very solid stalemate.

Naturally, Talia let one of those stalemates know that she'd be in 'his' city today. Not that she told Bruce exactly why, but it did seem a reasonable courtesy. If he wants to worry himself by finding out she's meeting with Poison Ivy, he can do that himself. Not that she'd blame him for that worry, though it isn't one that she shares.

Most might be apprehensive about walking right into the lioness' den, as it were. Ivy's done a lot of damage in the past, and she obviously doesn't have any problem with killing someone who is pestering her. Or, at least, she didn't. It's not gone unnoticed that the girl in green isn't taking nearly as aggressive a stance as she once did. Talia does not look in the least apprehensive however, whether because she trusts the other to be businesslike or she has a hidden ace somewhere. Whichever the case may be, she leaves her limo behind and strolls confidently into the park and towards the path suggested by Ivy. She's dressed impeccably, of course, in a suit costing more than most make in several months. In one hand is a leather briefcase that would have set someone else back the rest of their annual salary.


The park, in a way, is an estate with no house. There are divisions that the green knows, that Poison knows, but if there are invisible walls separating the bedroom from the office so to say, they're hard ones to deduce. This however? Not a public meeting. But not the kind of private where you introduce the visitor to your kids, either. Poison of course knows as soon as the other arrives. And she picked as a starting point for their meeting one by the official walks, but surrounded by trees. And mysteriously, there are no other visitors to the park in that area.

It's a courtesy really. Naked feet on the walkway. Maybe only falling snow makes less of a sound. Or Poison Ivy out in the green, out in the forest. It's almost a peace offering, as if she'd wanted to attack, she'd have done it where she moves with no sound at all.

Of course, if she really wanted that, she could have sent feraks. Or the trees themselves. But why should she? To nip any issues in the bud, hoping Talia's successor doesn't buy into habitual retaliation against those who have been unkind to LexCorp, even if they themselves advanced through it? Not her style. At least, not now.

Poison appears from nowhere in particular, walking up from the side, from behind, in no particular hurry -- startling the other would probably be unpleasant for both --, trying to meet the other woman's pace instead. And choosing the only place in the park where it will not seem entirely like sneaking up. "Autumn foliage.", she notes conversationally. "I love the colours." She does not offer a handshake for what must be obvious reasons, just keeps walking instead. "Protection from wind, rain, parabolic microphones, cameras -- I love the forest. Walk with me?", she invites, not straying from the path -- it is already so much her turf that venturing deeper into the park would be just uncharitable, even if it didn't feel strangely wrong in a way that is vaguely unsettling.


Talia looks to be in no way armed or armored. Really, it would likely be a simple thing for Ivy to kill her, were she so inclined. It might mean that the woman running LexCorp is either a great fool, highly courageous (there being a very fine, and often blurry, line between the two), or prepared. Odds are the last, given she's managed to hold her position without any apparent corporate difficulty. She strolls the path while waiting, seeming to also enjoy the outdoors.

Talia does not look particularly surprised as Ivy appears nearby her. "They are lovely, yes." she agrees, her tone conversational though at the same time carefully even and professional. "But then, I would expect no less of your home, Ms. Isley. And thank you." she says then to the offer to walk, not seeming uncomfortable in the least with the thought of being deep in Ivy's turf. She, also, does not offer her hand in greeting. Instead, she simply says "Talia Head. I'm actually surprised that we've had no previous opportunity to meet." She does do a great deal on behalf of the environment, after all. And before her more legitimate career, she did even more. Just not so much legally.


"I've often though how beautiful it is in here. And how ugly out there." Poison indicates the invisible city with a motion of her head. "And now I own one of the ugliest pieces of it." She makes a face. "You'll have to excuse the setting, but my home is preferable to my offices just now. Even the new ones.", she affirms. "Fortunately, I walk it like I talk it; if the explosion had rained pulverized asbestos all over Gotham, my reputation would never recover.", she adds drily, as if suggesting that suggests certain things about the attack. Another pause. "Image is an interesting currency, of course. Poison Ivy, mass --" Her voice trails off for a moment as she considers correcting the other on the name. The only people referencing her former life anymore are Arkham doctors. And sometimes, Nightwing. The former in the hopes of dissociating her from her 'criminal persona', to call upon the human one, the latter to disrespect and annoy her for tactical advantage. Neither tend to get a human reaction in reply, and when they do, it is hardly a favorable one. But it doesn't matter. "I've had some bad press.", she summarizes drily. "Mano Verde? A lot of people didn't think I'd really gone legit.", she acknowledges. "And now those who have faith must fear more terrorist attacks that might endanger their investment. Which I suppose makes it an interesting time to invest. You know how it goes -- if you have some money, you mustn't speculate. If you have a lot, you may. If you have none, you must." She certainly isn't playing with her cards close to her chest. Too much chest, maybe. "Welcome to Gotham, Ms Head. Pleased to meet you. I hope you haven't come to try and buy me out." Will she ever really get those human courtesies right? The chances are slim, in truth, but sometimes trying counts for something.


Talia's lips purse just slightly, to Ivy's comment about in here and out there. "As I understand it, you once considered it your duty to make 'out there'" she says, gesturing outwards "like it is 'in here'." But then, she moves on to more businesslike matters. "And yes. You have had some bad press. But, that is one of the risks of putting yourself out there." She doesn't seem to have suffered greatly from any bad press she may have received. But then, she doesn't have Ivy's reputation. There's a quiet chuckle then, before Talia replies "No. I am not interested in buying you out. LexCorp cannot benefit from taking on a risk like Mano Verde. However, I do have a great deal of interest in some of your intellectual properties. It might be that we can be of some use to one another."


The green woman blinks, falls behind half a step, then parses 'your duty to make out there' the way it was presumably intended. "It would have amounted to that, I presume." Mano Verde, of course, exists for control -- if it were just about the money, she'd have let people license that IP a long time ago. But once you want the company benefitting from it to be one that actually upholds your ideals, creating your own didn't seem that much more effort than keeping tabs on someone else's. Not considering the size such a company would probably have to have to take those things to market. "If someone had managed to buy the entire of the shop, IP and all, closing what's bombable and just selling licenses to the IP would have the safest bet. For a black night." She inclines her head sideways. "Of course, when you have working machinery -- factories, workers, administration -- you need to keep going, I suppose it's different." A beat. "You brought a briefcase," she then notes, seemingly apropos nothing, as if by way of asking whether the other woman's vision is concrete enough already to have been poured into a written proposal.


If Talia notes that brief hesitation, she's polite enough not to make it obvious. "I almost always carry a briefcase." she replies. "I like to be prepared." For what? That would require a peek inside, given she doesn't volunteer any insights into its contents. She asks then, returning to Ivy's earlier comment, "What would have amounted to that? Your work through Mano Verde? That seemed, on the whole, to be fairly small scale given your previous, more global devotion." There's a hint of... something in her tone. It could be disappointment, but then Ivy doesn't really know Talia well enough to interpret her.


"Somebody getting the majority of shares may well have amounted to the more hands-on", no pun intended, presumably, "parts of the three being closed. The labs and, were that part of the contract, the foundation, leaving essentially the IP. And Mano Verde was never anything less than global in ambition. It's always been the poorest countries that had the most to gain. Local empowerment. Free licenses for what they need to feed the starving. Those other patents? People may live with chocolate. Or tea. Or coffee. Or alcohol. Or tobacco. But foregoing all of them, all of the time? You reach out to pretty much anyone with those things -- I'm factoring in rice, wheat, and so on, as they fall under the aforementioned free license in some countries. And then if you manage to activate the potential the plant kingdom has for medicine? Or a good biofuel?" That's pretty much world ownership right there, even if she doesn't put it that way. "That's pretty global right there. We are talking large amounts of money. But we are also discussing a level of change that can make governments bare their teeth and stoop to animal level."


She can't help it. Talia laughs. It doesn't last overly long though, and is neither loud or obnoxious in tone. "That's not quite what I meant, though I can understand your confusion. The fault is mine, for looking at what is known of your past and making assumptions. It is one of the reasons that a face-to-face meeting was imperative before I seriously considered making any sort of offer on the Mano Verde IPs. It seems that you have been most unfairly portrayed by the press, given your obvious humanitarianism. I was given to believe your priority was the planet, rather than the people." Her expression reflects that, in her mind, she is plainly re-assessing the women.


"Without the planet, there will be no people.", Poison notes with a little shrug, as if everything else followed by implication. "The other way around ..." She leaves it hanging.


Talia mmms quietly. "Of course, I should have realized that the information was faulty. My apologies for any assumptions. After all, with the whole planet in such dire situation, and creatures and plants being destroyed by the encroachment of people and pollutants, why would someone the press once claimed considers herself nature's warrior settle for the upkeep of one tiny piece of land in one city." Then, she seems content to move on, saying "Your company has, of course, done marvelous things for agriculture and the ability of people to control nature for the sake of their consumption."


Poison stops. Smirks. "Pulease.", she says. "You don't believe that." A beat. "If you're beating around the bush to see whether it's really fruit from the Poison tree and whether I'm trying to wipe out the entire human race if not provoked, you need lose no sleep." She shrugs. "Of course, that might not quite be what you're getting at." She smiles wanly. "I'm afraid you have the advantage over me, Ms Head -- a lot of what I'm famous for -- infamous for, as the case may be, depending on your point of view -- is in the news. Find the right people, make them happy, you'll get my life story. Easy. Perhaps my psych eval." She considers, inclines her head. "Which I guess I wouldn't appreciate," she decides. Sheesh, these things are private! "Now, yourself -- it's been suggested that the most colourful parts of your CV have been painted over, to make you seem less than you are. That, of course, is absurd -- the CEO of LexCorp being a step down? From what? And you wouldn't believe who some people would link you to." She shrugs. "I don't know that I buy into any of those rumors, per se. But I'm amused by their number and recurring themes." Gee, sometimes, her life would be so much easier if she and Catwoman were on speaking terms. She shrugs. "I'd have amused myself and plotted a chart, but I don't hold with dead tree products where I can avoid them."


Talia agrees easily enough, "That might not be what I'm getting at." Then, "I just marvel at your seeming transformation from untamed spirit to a far more domesticated species." In fact, she does have Ivy's life story, pretty much. It wasn't hard for something like her. Then, she smiles again. "Painted over? My past? That would be wrong." On the other hand, she was hand picked by Lex Luthor to take over his company. "Have I been linked to interesting people?" she asks then, only making the faintest, token effort to sound clueless. "Do tell." She is curious how much Ivy's been able to dig up, after all.


"Indeed you have, but they may as well have linked you to the woman in the moon. The person in question would not have female progeny allowed to survive, I'm sure. So whatever the real story is -- well, that's what you get when enlist second best, I suppose. The world's greatest detective is not for hire, it would seem." The verdant woman smirks. "On the other hand, I have this vague feeling that maybe what got you into LexCorp wasn't -- how do you say, something you get your qualifications for in a Girl Scout program." She shrugs, walks a few steps. Turns around. Her eyes narrow, looking even more intensely green all of a sudden. Her expression tenses somewhat, her brow furrowing subtly. "I beg your pardon?", she prompts, her voice husky, irritated, without specifying which bit exactly it is that just registered. She inclines her head slightly, unthinkingly, and it is anything but a gesture of submission.


Talia allows herself a bit of a sigh. "No. He isn't for hire. Such a shame. Then again, perhaps the right price simply has yet to be found." She remains vague on what payments she may have so far offered. She can't help but chuckle to the comment about her qualifications, then says "Ultimately, what has mattered has been results. I feel quite good about mine. The resources of LexCorp have allowed me a far broader hand in saving what I can of the planet." As Ivy finally catches her not so subtle poke, she remains calm and business-casual. "Pardon, what?" she replies, as though she's not sure what exactly has given offense.


Poison just stares at the other for a moment, perhaps trying to say something, perhaps trying not to say something. "You know nothing about my species," she then decides shortly, her eyes sparkling. "Did you just drop in to tell me how wonderful you were, or did you have an actual point?", she can't help adding. Serious, what's the world coming to? O tempora, o mores, and all that. Sic transit gloria mundi. When people make sounds, they should be about how wonderful Poison is; everything else is just a waste of time, not to mention needlessly confusing. Harley gets to do the insanity defense, and that's about it.


"So true." Talia replies blithely. Conversationally, really. "Well, maybe not nothing. It isn't as though you've never left samples of DNA behind. But, for the most part I'm going by report and observation. You have a great gift, after all. And in the past you've declared lofty intentions. Now, you inhabit a tiny piece of land boxed within one of the dirtiest cities in the world. It's fascinating."


Poison gives the other a dirty look. "I think it is painfully obvious that I choose to live here. For reasons of my own. The location meets my approval; I couldn't care less whether it meets yours. So, really. Your heading, no pun intended, this company. You have an acceptable track record of late, as the environment goes. So my quarrel is not with you. What's it to you who it's with? Did you come here in the hope I might eradicate your competition?" It's a challenge alright. "Tell me, Talia Head, what does bring you here?"


Talia watches Ivy with a mild expression of curiosity, looking perfectly calm. "Yes. You choose to live and remain here. How can that fail to interest a fellow conservationist, when every day species draw nearer to extinction. It seems a tragedy that so much of the planet suffers while you, with all your great power to save it, linger here, is all." As to what brings her here, "Your intellectual properties, of course. Not all of us can do for the Earth what you can. The rest of us must depend upon what gifts science can provide."


"I have my reasons.", Poison claims shortly. "They do not include my having given up. As for the IP, what are we looking at, exactly? What can you do for me that I can't?" She smiles wanly. "Let's say I have control issues. I'm not like Bruce Wayne who entrusts his companies to others so very easily. Humans -- with no undue offence intended to present company, I assure you --, humans as a species ... well, let's say if they always could be dependent on to do what's right, we wouldn't be here having a conversation about the environment. What can you offer me that would outweigh the risk of ..." She fumbles for a suitable expression. "Well, essentially handing out the keys to the kingdom. Or arguably, giving the keys to the armoury to those you protect yourself from in the first place?"


Talia mmms, smiling. "I'm sure you do." she replies, then says "Unlike you, at least at the current time, I am able and inclined to reach outside one small city, to impact the world. And while I have no issue with wanting control, I do believe that you have a greater responsibility. If you will not attend to the planet, then let me do it." Blunt, isn't she. And obviously not concerned about hurting Ivy's feelings. "Without the planet, we have nothing. I will never allow it to come to harm." There's a gleam in her eyes as she says that which might say far more about her dedication than words can. She is, after all, a fellow fanatic. She's just... tempered herself of late.


Poison smiles. "If you think I am not so inclined, you either have not done your homework, or I am much better at this than people expected.", she notes drily, almost smugly. "Which is it, Talia Head?", she then purrs. She shoots the other a wolfish grin. "What I have here has the potential to uproot the markets, uproot the nation, uproot the nations. If played to the hilt, this is dynamite, this is sex. You know that. I know that. I'm surprised Mano Verde was not attacked earlier -- if not by rivals, business and otherwise, then by governments. I'm big. I'm nationwide. I am also, let's be fair, frightfully underequipped when it comes to tanks to stand up to hostile governments. That comes as no surprise, I'm sure, to the strategic mind. So tell me, if it's all about the planet, where were you offering my operation protection, from one sister in spirit to another, when I had use for it?"


There is no reply to whether Talia's been taken in or misinformed. Instead, she tilts her head just slightly as Ivy speaks, then says "Establishing my power base." To be fair, it's a very large and impressive power base. "I cannot simply wave my hand and set my house in order, after all." She gestures vaguely, likely meaning the park. "I am also curious what has given you such a gracious view of humans, that you think feeding them is now more important than simply reducing this massive population."


There is a long pause. "It's not quite that simple, I'm afraid. In fact, I looked into that at one point. That plan was then rehashed by a man called Ra's al Ghul who was able to throw vastly more resources at it in terms of human helpers and money than I could muster at the time, and he still got nowhere. So, resources are not necessarily the answer. Even if they may be part of the answer.", Poison finally acknowledges.


Talia considers that. "Well. I wouldn't say he got nowhere..." she replies, clearly knowing somehow what of Ivy speaks. "He learned a great deal. He may simply lack that certain something that a woman's mind might bring to the table." Not that she doesn't share her father's arrogance, of course. But she likes to think she has some advantages he lacks. Not what Ivy might think, though. Rather, she brings her humanity to the table. He's long since lost his. "Resources are fine and good, but it takes a combination of factors to use them with the necessary precision."


In all fairness, it was the whole humanity angle that made Poison back out of the more extreme measures. If you acknowledge humanity -- yours. theirs. --, it becomes harder to extinguish theirs. Even the most basic empathy can get in the way. Wiping out those who have committed crimes against the planet as a necessity for everyone's continued survival is one thing. Wiping out 4/5 of humanity with no regard to merit, almost randomly, by generit demerit, too bad, so sad, desolee, that's something altogether different. When you've got your humanity in place. Where 'in place' usually means 'in the way.' On the other hand, if Talia believes in adding humanity to the mix, she should be more than happy with the New Ivy. "Oh, I certainly agree. On finding the right mix." She considers. "I guess on the other thing, as well. MVI was supposed to provide the resources." And plant or no, she certainly meets the woman requirement. Possibly more than most. Depending on one's definition thereof. She shrugs. "Of course, I had my park set on fire, my company exploded, my employees poisoned -- very ironic there, wouldn't you say --, and my children killed. I'm tired.", she says. "I'm not beat."


Talia listens, then mmms. "Yes, it sounds like your decision to take a more gentle, 'politically correct' path has certainly paid off with the people around you in Gotham..." she says, to the list of what's been done to her and hers. There's sarcasm there. "I'm glad to hear that you aren't really as domesticated as you seem, of course. Tending Gotham's garden for the city, no matter how they feel about you."


Poison's expression twitches into a force smile. On the left, at any rate. Gee, she should go out with Dent, maybe. "I'm not here for their love.", she notes shortly. "I didn't realize your perspective was so anthropocentric."


Talia replies, to the point, "Then what are you here for? Your children could have an idyllic life anywhere, with far more space than this one park affords. Allowing you to devote your time to so much more of the planet. Is there something special about this particular piece of land, that you confine your efforts so, and deprive the rest of your attention?" She replies to the latter then, with "If my sole interest was humans, why would I bother trying to understand why you are neglecting the rest of the planet for the sake of one little park in a filthy, dark city."


Poison smiles ruefully. "Because it's Gotham.", she says simply. "If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. If I can transform this abomination of a city, everything else will follow." The next grin is still lopsided, but it's infinitely more genuine. One of those plans should become apparently soon enough, as it were. And it must. Before the rebuilding is completed entirely. "What's that definition of insanity again? Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result?", she muses. "What I was doing before didn't really work so well.", she admits. "And I've been away. I've moved to one of the most remote locations possible, undesirable to man, and man came after me. I watched my children being killed even there, for no reason but them wanting to prove that they could. They slaughter their own just to make a point."


There's a quiet 'ahh' from Talia. "Then it is the place itself that keeps you here. Not, say, a man." Her voice has an edge of a tease to it. It's not like she doesn't know how attractive that certain man is to women who don't strictly follow the law. "I'm relieved to hear it. That would just be embarrassing for you. After all, you were given a great Trust. You were considered the right arm of Mother Nature, by some. One who did not have to bow to humanity, as do so many others who seek to protect the planet. Of course, having children does now mean you must bow, for fear for them. Especially living in a place like Gotham."


Poison's cheeks turn a distinct aubergine. Ouch. Her lips part. She draws in breath, as if about to say something. Drops it. Thinks of something else. Is interrupted by the realization, the faint memory that this is in fact part of human communication -- that glow is visible, tends to be interpreted in a certain way. The executive is fishing for information, clearly. Because there is no way she could know. Is there? "... were?", the verdant woman echoes somewhat hazily. She shakes her head, her eyes focusing, her expression betraying a degree of annoyance, though whether at herself for zoning out, or for blushing, or at the suggestion per se is not entirely clear. "Apparently people also no longer consider me someone who will never suffer a shortage of male company, should she desire it.", she notes acidly. The thought of course is nothing short of absurd, but then in truth, the blush makes the statement seem somewhat beside the point. "What was the other --", she half asks, trying to will her thoughts back on course, away from those nights of fire (followed by another breakfast time divorce). "Look. I. Do. Not. Bow. I do not kneel. I have made the very hope of the city mine, how is that not a sign of power?", she challenges, a definite edge to her voice. And part of her is trying to break off, break loose, drift away, to when she is Peisinoe, screaming out a ceasefire, when she is like lava, like the sun, when she is the rising in the East, the setting out. The going down. When she is the scirocco turning into a hurricane. She blinks. Pulls that part of her mind back. Remembers that she is angry, even if the details presently elude her. Hopefully, she finished whatever she said last. She'll just have to take her chances, won't she? She shoots the other an angry stare.


Still, Talia watches Ivy intently. No, she doesn't know anything about the other woman and the Bat, but she did want to look for any reaction. The blush, of course, is fascinating to her. "Oh, now. You will never lack for male company when you want it, Ivy. That doesn't mean that just any male company will do." Certainly, Talia is very selective. Most of the time. Then, she arches an eyebrow. "The hope of one city. The hope of the entire planet should be yours. How long has it been, since you were gifted by Nature? Time enough to be more than the hope of one broken city." No, she isn't pulling any punches. It might also become more obvious by now that Talia's taken some manner of measure to remain unaffected by Ivy's pheromones.


The trouble with that of course is that while Talia might be oblivious to the wave of 'appease me' floating by from the verdant woman who is just as oblivious of projecting it; might stand unaffected by Poison's anger, the trees do not. It's subtle at first, but the do loom. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what has changed, or when, but something has. The green woman smirks. Inclines her head in acknowledgment of the other's powers of observation. "No. Just because many men want me doesn't mean I want many men.", she confirms. "Most people don't get the distinction. Most men." Wishful thinking, quite possibly. "I think I'm much more than that. I affect not only this park. You affect not only your LexCorp office."


Talia allows herself the briefest glance at the trees around them, as that something changes. She does not, however, seem to be panicking in any easily perceived way. "I'm glad to hear that you affect more than just the park. I will look forward to seeing you have more of an impact on the rest of the planet, before too much more damage is done that we humans cannot heal so easily as you can."


"It's a rock and a hard place. I'm not your mother. If I heal it, people will just go on hurting the planet, figuring, oh, Poison Ivy will fix it. The superheroes will save the day. That's not empowering to humans, and it's annoying to me. Because I feel the pain. It's the death of the thousand papercuts, and it's well shameful. Humans just learn so very slowly -- everything was fine for thousands of years --" Poison falls silent rather abruptly, and her eyes go distant -- she doesn't really need them here, anyway. A subtle smile touches the corners of her mouth, but she does not comment.


Talia ohhhs, nodding as though she understands now. "I see. So, you see part of your place in things as to empower humans. To stand by while they destroy the planet, waiting for them to learn to take care of it themselves. Fascinating. Thank you for the insight."


"You seem awfully sure that if I lost my patience, you'd number amongst the survivors. If I no longer did what you call standing by, how do you know there'd even be survivors -- human survivors -- at all?"


Talia chuckles quietly. "You could never rid the entire planet of humans." She sounds quite certain. "I am rather surprised that you seem so interested in their welfare, rather than in bringing their numbers down to a level where they can live in more harmony with nature." She's had a lot of years of her father's teachings, after all. She notes then, "And, no. I am not afraid of losing my life to your temper, Ivy."


Poison quirks an eyebrow. "What, you expect me to key my little toys to your genetics so you'll be left alone? Why?" She chuckles. "I could put you in the database of course --" Her voice trails off, and her eyes narrow as she regards the other, as if to classify if not the species, then certainly the specimen, her ancestry, work out how she'd have to label her. "I was not thinking so much of te--" She raises her eyebrow once more. Wait. "Why not?", she wonders.


There's a very simple reply that could easily be to both questions. Talia replies conversationally "Because you have weakened your position by having dependants, and neither of us can fathom what Ra's al Ghul would do to your children in retribution, if you were to kill his daughter."


Poison peers in something like amused disbelief. Then, she chuckles. "Well, that does coincide with what I heard, if nothing else.", she notes. "Though in truth it seems more likely that you started those rumors yourself -- from what I know of Ra's, I find it hard to believe he'd bother to let a daughter live." She grins. "In fact I'm not sure I don't find it harder to believe a woman would go with him in the first place.", it occurs to her. People have probably died for less, but hey, she's Poison Ivy. She's never been accused of being well versed in social graces. She smirks, "Truly, if the virus would get you -- the potential virus, I mean --, that would just mean there's half a chance it might get him too -- bloodlines and all. Oh, you weren't adopted, were you?", she wonders, briefly getting carried away with the scientific side of the house of thoughts. "If my aim were to eliminate all humans, of course none of that would be terribly relevant."


It doesn't look as though Talia plans to offer any details regarding how she may or may not have been conceived. Nor on her opinion of Ra's and his interest in female children. She just smiles, then says "Of course, if you eliminate all humans, you deprive yourself of the few men that you do think deserve your attention. What a shame that would be."

Talia does note, "I'd think you'd want such a noted conservationist to survive such a cataclysm. After all, my father has been working for ages on reducing the human population for the sake of the planet."


"Look.", Poison calls out in non-response to Talia's first statement. "Asian sacred lotus. Homeothermic. Excellent for keeping the park the right temperature, along with some other darlings." A beat. "Hm. I suppose I could give that man immunity.", she muses. She smiles. "Make him a little more like me, maybe." For a moment, she holds that thought like one may hold a sick baby. Then, she lets go, redirects her mind. "If I started to go by merit, I'd be called upon to judge everyone. There aren't enough hours in the day. I respect Ra's' fight for the planet -- how could I not? --, but I've always wondered about his rationale. He seems to feel about women in weird ways -- and I have a responsibility there, too --, and what's with all those henchmen? All those hierarchies? The subjugation of nature, the subjugation of women, in the end, it all seems like symptoms of the same disease. This planet should be no man's, nor any human's dominion." Man and human, it's a nice twist on man being the default human, certainly. "His views just never struck me as all that consistent. But then, he certainly hasn't bothered to discuss their finer points with me." Or she hers with him, really, but there's no point dwelling on that, is there?


Talia only chuckles quietly, at Ivy's supposition about her father. She continues to not offer any insight at all. It is not for her to show any of his cards, after all. "From what I've seen of your track record thus far, I am not terribly concerned that you will manage to destroy a large percentage of the planet. You way has always been blocked by Batman, from what I've heard." She smiles just a bit. "He does have a talent for getting in the way." Though, there's also something more to her tone. Some amusement, and certainly she does not hate the man.


"Pretty much everyone's way, I should think, seeing as things haven't changed dramatically.", Poison says with a shrug. "I can't hate him for it; it's the same job I do, to serve and to protect. Doesn't want his demographic hurt. I understand that. On the other hand, I'm not sure it's sustainable. If it's going to be long-term, defending people cannot imply defending the status quo. Are you taping this, or should I?"


Talia looks terribly amused as Ivy replies. "He's male. All his Robins have been male. He's a control freak. He protects humans from nature's efforts to exert itself over the people. Yes. I can see where you wouldn't hate him." Her tone isn't dripping with sarcasm, but it's certainly present.


Poison smirks smugly. "Robins. Some of my greatest successes.", she notes drily. "But yes, he's male. Quite, quite so. Yes, you'd think he'd be less worried about nature and more about man handing misery to man, quite literally. I'm not convinced he minds the garden as long as people don't die, really." And exactly that is up to the test, isn't it? The next stage? "He -- I -- what?" She looks puzzled. "I'm afraid I'm not following." Her blush gets deeper, and she keeps her eyes on the path somewhat unnecessarily. She knows where everything is. And if she wanted it, she could walk in any direction she wanted, and for all practical purposes, the path would follow her, or at least, one would open. "I have no idea what you're getting at," she asserts somewhat angrily. "Now, to try and pit me against the boyscout, that I could see. LexCorp, Superman, Metropolis, I could see the angle. Poison Ivy, the surprise foil. The Girl from Out of Town. But this is Gotham. Your presence isn't strong here. What money can be made in this pitiful place is made by BruceCorp, I'm just not convinced it's such a good place to try and expand into. What's it to you how things are between me and Batman?", she demands. "On a, er, professional level, I mean. You know what I mean!" She shakes her head. "What I mean is ..." She'll come up with something. "What, were you offering help with the Bat situation when you haven't got your own backyard sorted? With Superblue and whatever superfriends he has in your city?"


Now... that was absolutely fascinating. Talia hadn't been making any implications regarding Ivy and Batman, but the other woman's tone, body language and words cause her eyebrows to raise. "Oho." she says with a smirk. The rest is somewhat lost as her mind works over that one. "I see..." She looks even more amused. "He does have that certain... something about him, doesn't he. That does explain a great deal." She doesn't clarify exactly what it explains, though.


The verdant woman shakes her head, as if to shake off a haze. "What?", she demands, not so much angry now as confused, mildly bewildered. "What are you talking about?" She frowns. "Oh." She makes a dismissive gesture with one hand. "Yeah, I guess. With what he does, it figures, doesn't it? I mean, you can't do those things if you're not in peak physical condition." She shrugs. "I don't know that I care to do discuss the looks of every man I tangled with over the years though." She makes a face. "Especially since that would include the Joker."


Talia continues to smirk at Ivy. "Mm hmmmm..." she replies. "There goes another one. Oh, Ivy. You'd hardly be the first woman he's broken. Caused to compromise her original goals. Not all his weapons are physical, you know. He is an incredibly clever man."


"I'm -- NOT FUCKING BROKEN!!" There goes her title of being The Woman who never needs to raise her voice. Or technically, she didn't need to -- she just couldn't help it. It's different. She wants to say something more, but the words don't come, all she can do is notice her heartbeat in her throat, feel a tingle in her upper arms, keep the forest from doing anything rash -- and wondering why she bothers. She has more than half a heart to just let go, really, and when the feraks close in unseen, she lets them. It would be hell to pay later, but ... that's really only if the body were to be found. Which is an absurd idea, really, in here. This land is her land. Nothing happens here that she -- well, except this, apparently. What, this woman comes and pisses her off, here in her home? She extends a fist. "What, you see a ring there?", she challenges. She's known and admired for a lot of things. One-liners are not on that list. "I think you are seriously, seriously misjudging the situation. What the hell do you think's between --" She shakes her head. "-- and even then, it wouldn't be any of your business. Give me one reason not to kill you for your impertinence. Just one.", she snarls. "Make it good.", she warns. "Better than burying some new fertilizer would feel."


Talia continues to look fascinated by Ivy. And especially fascinated by her outburst. Still, even though the forest echoes the mood of its mistress, she is not afraid. "Of course you're not." she says, though there might be something just a bit patronizing there. Maybe. Maybe not, though. "My mistake. I'm sure that you don't ever factor into your plans 'How can I do this without quite crossing the line with him?' Obviously, he tolerates you in Gotham. So long as you 'play nice' with the humans." Then, of course, there's the threat. She notes "My father brought the world the plague, Ivy. Some of the evils he's created in his labs are truly disgusting in what they do to a person. He would know I was last seen here, and he would come for your children. And then, he would one by one infect them as lab rats, to test his creations. Then, he would arrange a death for this park from which there would be no return. Now, my father and I don't see eye to eye on many things, but I do know how he would react to you killing me."


"Some plague that was.", Poison says derisively. "Rips off my idea. Has years to improve on it, it goes nowhere. He has years of preparation, he has tons of henchmen -- he blows it. It's like fuckin' Kali comes down, says, here's how to kill, and he blows it. You sure you want to claim that guy as your father? The only thing that guy's famous for's, his resources; his, his claim to fame is, with all the men and monies, his failures are bigger than anybody else's. Hooray! That's his middle name, Epic Fail, you think I'm afraid of that? Recruit the Joker, I might hesitate for a moment. Ra's al Ghul? I doubt it.", she spits out.


Talia's eyebrow raises. "You misunderstand me, Ivy. I'm talking about the Black Death. And insulting my father will not cause me to lose my temper. I know what is true and not true. I'm just fascinated by your reaction to my suggestion you've bent your will to what Batman might or might not excuse. But, as you say, it is none of my business. I'm here about your patents." And to push a few buttons, clearly.


"Look, this is a fool's game. If your point is to fish for exactly what immunities I have or haven't given the kids so you'll know whether it's worth your while to try and vivisect them, you know better than that." Poison shrugs. "Of course you know what is true. I can see it by how you refuse to bear the shame of his name." She shrugs again. "Not interested. As for your conclusions, whatever. That my methods are currently legal -- as are yours, ostentatiously -- is no secret. If you want to delude yourself into thinking that says anything about my will, be my guest. No skin off my nose."


Talia looks confused briefly, and replies "I'm not sure how you came to that suspicion, regarding your children. I assure you that I have never desired to hurt the innocent among humanity. Only those that would spoil it for the rest." Her shoulder lifts then, and she says, "I had to try, regarding the patents. After all, I have the means to use them to aide others, and you do not at the moment. It's as simple as that." She seems to have no trouble at all, separating the personal button-pushing and business. But then, she's the one doing the pushing.


Poison's face twitches, going through a dozen conflicting emotions. Damn this woman, and her little dog, too! She has half a heart to not do business on the grounds of antipathy, of dislike in the strongest terms possible. On the other hand, can she opt to not help just on the grounds of personal vanity? She frowns. Gestures. "It doesn't even make sense!", she complains. "On one hand, you're telling me how feeding the world only exacerbates overpopulation, prolongs an untenable status quo, and signifies general cowering in the shadow of the bat, and on the other, you tell me that you came here to get my patents so you can do the exact thing you have so much derision for. And then again, you do your worst to sabotage any possibility of a deal. You humans!", she accuses. "You just don't make any sense!" Yes, it's frustrating alright.


Again, Talia watching poor Ivy with great interest. She doesn't look terribly dismayed that she's confusing the woman. "Feeding the world does exacerbate the problem, yes. But, I have a business to run. So, I help the planet in other ways, as I'm able. I was more marvelling that you, who has stood as the guardian of the planet, has turned around so entirely to the point of wanting to help humans grow more plants solely for the purpose of their massive consumption. And seeing your reaction when he was mentioned, I could not help but wonder whether it's interest in Batman that's motivated you to soften so entirely."


"So that's your excuse, you have a business to run? That's the same line I hear from people polluting our rivers." Yes, she manages to turn this into higher moral ground at last. Of sorts, at least. "And you're misrepresenting my rationale.", she points out. "Which is that if you don't cull the herd -- including the innocent that you seem so fond of --, to half the current population at most, the consumption will be there. My way addresses that, provides food because otherwise, man will further expand into my forests. That is all. It's a stopgap while we're scaling back the population. Doing that in a non-lethal, not immediately lethal way takes time. I'm buying us that time. That is all." Where Talia sees bats in that rationale is her secret, certainly. Poison does not bother to point out that clashing with the law is not a smart idea when you have dependents. That would just suggest 'kill the kids, and Ivy might go back to her old ways' plans.


"Really. 'We're' scaling back the population? Who, exactly, is this 'we' of which you speak?" Talia replies, smiling just a bit. "For whom are you buying this time, because if there is a legal and legitimate way to slow or even scale back population growth, I would be more than happy to put resources towards it." Then, "As to having a business to run, I've made cutting down on pollutants my priority. I doubt any other CEO would have been so considerate of the planet. And I am a mere human, Ivy. There is only so much I can do for the planet. Unlike you, who has far more natural ability that seems to be going to waste."

[Poison Ivy]

"As I'm sure you're aware, Mano Verde has -- or had, at any rate -- three parts. One's gone, for all practical purposes, at least here in Gotham. That was the part that actually made certain compounds. Another parts holds the patents; that was for the express purpose that I didn't want that part to go up in smoke if something happened to the physical part of the company, shall we say. Protect the portfolio. I'm not quite as stupid as people take me for. The third part was my private amusement. Channeling back to money to where I think it made sense. In fact, the production part already did that, to a degree. I think you'll agree that we have a cluster of problems here. First off, there already is enough food, it's just that nobody cares about people dying. Second, while there is enough food, the way it used to be produced is not sustainable. Third, if people ate less meat, we'd loose a lot of the problem. Fourth, we have a lot of countries where the only social security in old age is children, and the only job available to women is broodmare. And then you have the lie of romance to sugarcoat that bitter pill." See, she misses Harley. But her being away has its upsides, too. Like, Poison totally gets to trash romance without her friend throwing a fit. Bonus. There's really no talking to Harley about that. Which is somewhat ironic, if not exactly haha funny, seeing how abusive the Joker is. Maybe that's why he bothers at all. It would suit his twisted humour. "So, provide an alternative. The production part always used local production plants as much as possible. Local graduates. Local workers. Women, wherever possible. Give women an alternative. Give them a source of income. Give them birth control because let's face it, people in their twenties want sex. Give them education. The production arm provided the jobs. The income. The foundation aimed to produce the rest. The really just leaves the dead animal food. I haven't got that sorted, though I created a virus at one point that gave people an intolerance. Like lactose intolerance, only for animal corpses. You get the picture. I haven't had a chance to go into field trials -- in fact, I'm just so busy these days, I think I still have the papers in the lab collecting dust." Her voice drifts off. "Pretty irresponsible really, what if someone were to steal them where they're in low security? I really need to rectify that.", she murmurs, more to herself.


Talia continues to listen to Ivy, but she cannot keep from smiling. And, occasionally, chuckling quietly. She politely waits a moment after the other woman stops speaking, perhaps just to ensure she's really done. Then, "What I wouldn't give to juxtapose that little speech with those you offered at the beginning of your life as Poison Ivy. The change is beyond startling. Once, it was all this talk of how best to save the planet. Now, it's all this talk about how to save the people. I wonder what your younger self would think of the person you've become." Her tone is musing, as though she is trying to imagine such a thing. "With age does come wisdom, of course. I never imagined that with yours would come such an extreme turnaround."


Poison shrugs. "I don't see it, really. The point was to save the planet from it being destroyed by humans. It still is. Saving humans is just a means to an end." She considers. "In some cases, the icing on the cake. In others, a necessary evil. There are humans I wouldn't mind seeing gone, to be honest. And there are humans that I'd miss." Pretty obviously. She could have just turned the children out of the park in the No Man's Land, after all. Left them to die. It seems that she too has a certain weakness for the innocent. That's one of four. Or one of one, depending on how you count. Motherly instincts, for plants and, it seems, humans too -- the innocent. Vanity, impulsiveness, sure. But the better part of vanity was just basking in the fact that her looks and chemical allure now afforded her a degree of control where before, she'd been controlled; enough to keep them from hurting her. And still, distrust remained, resulting first in controlling relationships with men, then the imbalance of mother/children, then her big sister deal with Harley. Batman? The first time there is no 'power-over.' It's a damn good risk. But if there is one thing she learned from their interaction over the years is that he can be relied on to live by and die for his rules, his beliefs. And there is security, is solace in that -- it just doesn't hold the potential for betrayal like Jason's.

In some ways, it's all the same thing, it's just not wanting others to get hurt the way she did, and to punish those who do the hurting. By that token, she too is a vigilante; just much more ruthless than most for the better part of her career. "It's really just what you said. This gift that I have. To save the world? Quite possibly. To save the world while fighting the vigilantes too? Not so much. Maybe that's the wisdom in this -- you don't fight a two-front war if there are other ways."


There's a quiet 'Mmmm...' from Talia as she studies Ivy for another long moment after the redhead has stopped talking. "Well. This has been terribly interesing. I think I have all that I need for now." Her expression and polite smile reveal very little that might be going on in her head. Then, "When you make your decision on how the monetary worth of your patents weighs against those that might die waiting for those innovations to be implemented, please do be in touch?" A business card is produced, and offered. "I feel that I can make a fair offer, of course. And, that I have the best resources for moving forward with your properties. You are welcome to take your time, of course. Then again, many likely die every day that could be saved by the work that you have done."


Poison clearly is still confused as to discrepancy between Talia's talk about saving people, and that about the world needing less of them. Which ironically is the exact same thing of course that the other woman said about her. No easy answers, huh. Of course, that's only one angle from whence to approach the affair. Another would be to acknowledge that while Poison holds those patents, yes, people will die, and to then proceed to wondering whether that wasn't the entire point all along -- to block others from using the same techniques for sustaining such an overblown population. The beauty of it? The government cannot easily declare eminent domain. Those patents have a tendency to upset the local dynamics too much, make markets capsize, put voters out of business, so, so many voters ... Hate as she may capitalism, beating them at their own game would certainly hold a certain degree of poetic justice. She nods courtly. "I will ... keep that in mind," she promises, wondering perhaps whether she other will take up her Viral Challenge, whether she will accept that challenge, whether she actually cares as much as she pretends. She accepts the card, gives it a once over.


There's a polite nod of her head towards Ivy, then Talia says "It's been lovely. Thank you for seeing me." With that, and without any further questions or comments, the CEO of LexCorp turns to see herself out of the park the same direction from which she arrived. As with her arrival, she seems entirely unconcerned about her well-being. Or, she's just that certain where all the aces are sitting in the deck.